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Australian solar's race to the edge

Comments on this article

I'll see your $4.6B and raise you....

Thanks Peter, Putting aside the fact that almost everything you argue has no basis in rational economic theory I'd like to point out that those aluminium smelters generating $4.6B in exports (not to be sneezed at) are dwarfed by our imports of crude oil, something north of $20B at today's prices.

Its obvious you don't care about rational aguments about long term economic sustainability. You are only interested in maintaining your way of life and beggar the consequences for the next guy. Go nuclear! Go shale gas!

You say, affordable energy is in "every single resident of this planets interest" and I agree but only if the REAL cost of that energy is calculated on this and future generations. Our current energy sources are unaffordable but we pass on the cost to those that will come after us - that's OK, at least you won't have to eat root vegetables.

There are other energy sources for which Australia has a huge competitive advantage such as Biomass (the other solar) and there are a number of new technologies that are already available that will allow us to transform that biomass into energy products at prices that are more than competitive with $100 oil. They represent an opportunity to generate a new industry that will make aluminium look like a rounding error.

If you factor in the REAL costs, nuclear and shale gas are both very expensive. New technologies will be developed to improve their competitiveness but right now they are out the money.

Response..

Six of the dirty horrible polluters (shame shame) are the six aluminium smelters currently earning Australia $4.6 bn in export value.  Anyone care to advise how long it will take and which countries will buy that value of our currently non-existant indigenous renewable technology, how long will it take to build such a business and who might do it?  It is all well and good looking forward to penalising and using emotive words, but have something real and substantial and achievable to hand when you are doing it.

 

The power that dare not speak its name is either shale gas or nukes.  Sooner or later the penny will drop that the >2000 MW nuke isn't what is in the future, but much smaller.  Anyone every hear of nuclear subs doing a Chernobyl?  Men actual live and work metres from the things and its not a scandal neither a technology fallacy..it is real and proven since 1959 when Nautilus sailed under the Arctic.

 

The other is obviously shale gas (see Beach Petroleums announcement) and as much as Christine Milne smirks and gloats at the end of the fossil age, its not over yet by a long time.  Perhaps long enough for something all peoples can afford since cheap energy is in every single resident of this planets interest.  Cheaper energy has driven the industrial world.  We can not let a bunch of green Mediaevalists turn society into a bunch of homespun yarn and root vegetable eaters.

Sobering solar PV contribution

If you have a look at the renewable energy figures for 2010 they're much more sobering than the ones given above.  Roughly 0.2 per cent of our energy came from solar PV.  That would make it equivalent to a 50MW power station, quite small when compared to the 1500MW snowy hydro capacity and nothing like the figures quoted above.  See http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/ret-hail-fellow-not-well-met for details.  Until solar PV is grid independant rather than on parity with the grid it won't deliver what baseload renewables such as hydro can deliver.  And there'll always be a gas fired backup lurking around the corner until it does.  I'd be quite happy to see all these solar PVs go off-grid but I know it's a way off before that will happen.  In the meantime the focus should be on baseload renewables until solar PV can go off-grid.

You are confused indeed

What is the cost-effective technology you speak of?  The subsidies for renewables are a speck compared to the massive compensation taxpayers have been paying to non-renewables. 

confused y r as r many others

what we do today is our future M Gandi, the waste from Nuclear will last longer than the Pyramids, we had water mills in europe in the 1700,s and while they were not that efficient they worked, and we still have tides every day in fact four times a day, the sun shines most places and the wind blows and technology is getting so much better all of the time. I am very pleased to look at the panels on my roof and to be a part of the 110,000 house holds who have done so, saving the building of a medium sized power station that no state government (NSW) has ever mentioned that we need due to over large demand. Get a grip we need to do this and more and I am so pleased to be in a position that we as a family could, renewable are the only thing that are here to stay thank nature.

Unfortunatly the State (NSW) have confused many and we will need to get back on track which I am sure we will, of course it is great to have schems to help but the industry will be stroung I am sure for years and I am very pleased to be a part of it

Regards

Out of Tiuch

Your thoughts Peter are a bit out of date. May have applied 10 years ago but less so today. I have a 2kW system, admitedly in Perth with high sunlight levels. Grid power here is currently around 23c/kWH, my system cost is around 20c/kWh if I remove all state and federal subsidies. Now these subsidies help for sure and reduce my cost to around 7c /kWH. I dont care how much it costs to generate electricity at some remote plant, all I am interested in is how much I get charged on my meter.

". . . the power that dares not speak its name."

That would be nuclear, the supposed mature technology which still can't operate without the taxpayer underwriting both the capital costs and the insurance risk because no commercial organisation would do so.

 

This has been the most heavily subsidised technology ever - for over 60 years and what is being suggested as the power of the future are not any currently operating power station technology, but '4th Generation' technologies such as Thorium reactors - the Holy Grail of 'cheap and endless power' promised in the 1940s and still not even close.

 

Sure 3rd G reactors are being built in China - a military autocracy and with government funds and god knows what environmental standards. Ah, he says, France & Finland are building - well yes and now 4-years behind schedule and 5x over the original budget, and by the way, still heavily taxpayer subsidised for capital and insurance risk.

 

So "the power that dares not speak its name." indeed - speak it loud and speak it often and tell me where your house is - we'll build several right next door. 

Confused

Why is there glamour and breathless fawning over becoming 1GW solar?  The shemes were massively over compensated.  One person's subsidy is another's tax.

 

Where is the joy in that?  Everything should wash its own face, its impossible to compensate renewables forever.  If today was 2030 and renewables were everywhere, what would Australia's economy look like?  Answer is - nobody knows.  By then AGW should have fully expressed itself, the world needs to have all agreed.  What will Australia look like with no coal mining, agriculture stuffed because of weather related conditions, resources boom over, and hugely exensive energy.

 

Will every other country's energy be similarly priced.  Not if they have nukes. With high energy cost, so will food.  International trade will be severly curtailed because of transport costs.  Everything points to significant and forever reduction in living standards.  Health technology will be unaffordable as well, unless the forever subsidisers want to subsidise that even more, dropping living standards further.

 

How to break this cycle?  Stop beating the mindless renewable drum.  Demand cost effective technology whatever it is.  We are going to need it, and need it in a hurry..the power that dares not speak its name.

 

By the way, I have my own renewables technology driving my i-Pod.  I have a copper coil on my head and as I move around the earth's magnetic field charges the battery.

 

I guess I can I expect my salivatingly sweet funds from the $10bn boondoggle and Government thuggery to mandate everyone wears my "Power Cap"?